Accounting Entries Multiple Tenants


Gregory Hummel | email Nov 12 2020, 10:46 AM
Hi I just started using your cloud software. I have sampled this software a couple of times over the last 15 years of existence.
Anyway the problem of multiple tenants in the same unit and separate payments has been a HUGE issue for years. And a) no one has come up with a solution B) many have resigned themselves to creating multiple sub-units which I have also done.
Have read the manual and read many of the issues people have had on the blog.
My issue/question may be of interest to many. I rent entire apartments to groups (4 bedrooms) and I also match roommates and rent out individual rooms. So if I rent to a group with a set rent. I create a main tenant, create a lease and apply the full rent amount to their monthly rent due and then add the rest as occupants. The tenants still many times pay individually. To deal with this I just enter partial payments and note who the payment came from. Eventually the balance becomes zero. My issue is when I first tried the software for units that I rented to groups with a set rent for the unit. I entered the tenants individually and split the rent amongst them. That was a mistake. So I have gone back and changed the rent for the main tenant to the full amount due. But after these changes the suggested entries have not changed the rent amount to reflect the higher rent amount. I have to go to the suggested entry and edit each one.
Also on a separate note it would be helpful to have the tenants monthly rent appear in their tenant info and also a place holder for an image rather than opening pictures. For occupants the info is to limited. A full tenant profile is needed phone, email, etc. For development cost that can remain static info in occupants. But that info is needed often. I am trying not to have to go look for a file.
Stephane Grenier | email Nov 13 2020, 02:49 AM
Hi Greg,

Thank you for your trying LandlordMax. And it's good to hear that you've been looking at it over the years.

Please find the responses to your questions and comments below:

1. Multiple tenants in a unit.

Although this is not your scenario I'm describing it first because it's the simplest setup. In this scenario the tenants are grouped together, that is they all move in and move out together, get evicted together, pay as a group, etc. In this case we recommend putting one tenant's name as the primary tenant and all others as Occupants. It's much like say your cell phone plan, you have one person as the primary account holder. All additional tenants would be entered as occupants.

Now if the tenants are renting separately within the same unit (for example by bedroom), that is they can each have their own separate lease, pay their rents individually, each move in and move out at different times, can be evicted separately, then in this case we recommend you sub-divide the unit rather than rent it as a single unit, such as unit 1 would become 1a, 1b, 1c, and so on. There are solutions that allow multiple tenants to a unit but they are going to cost a lot more and in essence end up doing the above but in more complex ways. And you'll still end up having to perform the same amount of work, and often in more complex ways. Based on your description every tenant in that unit is basically just renting a room, or a sub-unit, therefore the unit should be broken up rather than the tenants being entered as occupants. In other words that unit is really comprised of multiple units within it, meaning each bedroom is really a unit, each with it's own tenant, lease, rents, and so on. By breaking it up into separate units you will be able to get the full power and value of the software.

On a side note the Cloud Edition includes Partial payment buttons to simplify the process of partial payments on the Suggested Accounting Entries. That being said if you divide up the unit into sub-units, that is each sub-unit has it's own unit entry, then that will remove the need to do all that extra work and they can just be handled like normal units.

2. Occupant profile

I assume you're mainly referring to Occupants for the full information? If so then I suspect it's because of #1. Occupants are meant to be additional occupants in the unit along with the primary tenant. An example would be a family where the kids would be the occupants. Another would be an adult with a spouse or a couple of friends. If they are tenants that pay you their own portion of the rent then they should not be entered as occupants but rather as tenants in their own unit (where a unit could be divided into subunits such as 1a, 1b, etc. for each bedroom or however they are divided).

On a related note please note that with the Cloud Edition you can now select which columns appear in every table, and the software will also remember your customizations for the next time. The following YouTube video shows how you can customize any table in the software to your preference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIb3RLCHiOo



Gregory Hummel | email Nov 14 2020, 10:47 AM
Hi thanks for the response. I understand completely the options you explained. I have tried to create similar management programs for myself in filemaker, excel, access etc. And the roommate situation is always the issue.
I don't think you understood my first question. My scenario is I created a unit and sub unit bedrooms for individual roommates who moved in as group together.
For that particular unit I rented to the group who have a set rent lets say $4,000.a month and a fixed term lease. Though they pay with individual payments the total rent is always the same $4,000. a month. And if any roommates swap during the lease it will not effect the rent total due or the lease term.
I decided setting up separate sub unit bedrooms was to complex for this simple scenario and it was easier to set a main tenant owing the full rent amount monthly. Then as I received partial payments from the roommates I would just note in the note section who and in what form the payment came.
Also though I decided to make one tenant the main tenant I decided to leave that tenant in a sub-unit bedroom since all that really matters is the total rent. I didn't see any point to deleting sub-unit bedrooms since in the future I may end up matching roommates on separate leases in the unit. I can just pick a bedroom for the primary tenant and I deleted the roommates in the sub unit bedrooms and added them as occupants instead.

Same topic I read that account entries are not deleted for some reason. With that said if you make any mistake the software does not seem to let you make entry changes that automatically update future suggested entries. For instance I entered a tenant as a roommate in a subunit. I decided as i said above to change that tenant to the main tenant. When I changed the rent that person was responsible for from $1200. to $4000. That seemed to to create multiple suggested entries and I had to go delete the incorrect ones.

Occupants has no column for phone number or email. That is important when scheduling a showing in the future. That information needs to be available at a glance.

Also when looking when looking at the account entries table in tenant view can you add occupants as a table?
You have it as a table in occupants in the tenant view. The would be vary helpful when assigning a partial payment. In a scenario I described above I have to manually enter a note. It would be simple to make the payment thru the main tenant and have a pull down to pick an occupant . so as I look at the table I can see who the partial payment came from.

View by first name first, last name last would be nice. Sorry I know this is a lot but I am adding as I encounter issues.
Stephane Grenier | email Nov 16 2020, 01:29 AM
Hi Greg,

You're welcome for the response. And thank you for your understanding. And please find my further responses below.

1. Hi thanks for the response. I understand completely the options you explained. I have tried to create similar management programs for myself in filemaker, excel, access etc. And the roommate situation is always the issue.
I don't think you understood my first question. My scenario is I created a unit and sub unit bedrooms for individual roommates who moved in as group together.
For that particular unit I rented to the group who have a set rent lets say $4,000.a month and a fixed term lease. Though they pay with individual payments the total rent is always the same $4,000. a month. And if any roommates swap during the lease it will not effect the rent total due or the lease term.
I decided setting up separate sub unit bedrooms was to complex for this simple scenario and it was easier to set a main tenant owing the full rent amount monthly. Then as I received partial payments from the roommates I would just note in the note section who and in what form the payment came.
Also though I decided to make one tenant the main tenant I decided to leave that tenant in a sub-unit bedroom since all that really matters is the total rent. I didn't see any point to deleting sub-unit bedrooms since in the future I may end up matching roommates on separate leases in the unit. I can just pick a bedroom for the primary tenant and I deleted the roommates in the sub unit bedrooms and added them as occupants instead.

I really don't think you'll find a solution that will offer what you're asking for, definitely not anywhere near the same price range. And even then I can't see how you wouldn't encounter the same issue. In essence if I understand correctly you want the individual tenants to be grouped under a single tenant where they each pay rent but it could be different portions and different amounts each month as long as the total adds up. You then need to track whatever portion they paid but again it could be different, so none really owe a set amount each rent payment. They can also move in and out as needed, meaning each tenant doesn't really have their own lease. In fact the primary tenant could also move out at any time. Therefore you need a lease on the unit, or a group of tenants rather than any individual tenant. What you're doing is amazing for your tenants but it's beyond what most software solutions can offer. It is doable but what you're doing is exceptional rare and as a result I don't know of any solution that has support for your particular scenario. I believe you would encounter similar limitations with any property management software. Again what you're offering your tenants is great but it's not supported in the software. Your best option is really to have the tenants separated out into sub-units. But again it is challenging because although they fall under a group lease none of the individual tenant's have their own lease. Even sub-leasing wouldn't be appropriate. All that to say the software doesn't support the exact scenario you're looking for, and I don't know that any other solution will either. This is not a limitation of the software but rather an exceptional use case.


2.Same topic I read that account entries are not deleted for some reason. With that said if you make any mistake the software does not seem to let you make entry changes that automatically update future suggested entries. For instance I entered a tenant as a roommate in a subunit. I decided as i said above to change that tenant to the main tenant. When I changed the rent that person was responsible for from $1200. to $4000. That seemed to to create multiple suggested entries and I had to go delete the incorrect ones.

First please note that any entry can be deleted. You can always select an entry and click on the delete button. If you make a mistake on the scheduling part of a Scheduled Accounting Entry then that portion is not editable and you would instead have to delete it and then re-create it. This is greatly simplify things and avoid subtle issues that can cause a lot of extra entries to be either created or missed without the person being aware that this is what they are asking for. For example let's say you change the Start Date to 3 months in the past as well as the day of the month to be the 1st instead of the 10th. Does the software re-generate all the entries for every month, including those it already did? What if you changed the Start Date to 3 months in the future? What if you also change the Frequency to be weekly instead of monthly. It can lead to all kinds of issues that some people don't realize.

In any case any entry can be deleted. Are you encountering any type of error when trying to delete an entry?

That being said you can edit any Suggested Accounting Entry as needed. You can also create partial entries on the Suggested Accounting Entries but again I would really recommend separating out the payments if possible. When you edit a Suggested Accounting Entry it only edits the current one, it doesn't create new ones. Perhaps the following video will help clear things as it goes through Scheduled and Suggested Accounting Entries and explains how they all work in quite a bit of detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDq_zKKAE-I


3. Occupants has no column for phone number or email. That is important when scheduling a showing in the future. That information needs to be available at a glance.

That's correct we don't offer this. Keep in mind that is a requirement specific to your needs. In most cases you would be contacting the primary tenant rather than every single occupant in the same property. If you have to contact the tenant's individually, they pay individually, and can move out individually, then they really are separate tenants. Again I don't think you'll find a solution that handles the exact scenario you're looking for.

4. Also when looking when looking at the account entries table in tenant view can you add occupants as a table?
You have it as a table in occupants in the tenant view. The would be vary helpful when assigning a partial payment. In a scenario I described above I have to manually enter a note. It would be simple to make the payment thru the main tenant and have a pull down to pick an occupant . so as I look at the table I can see who the partial payment came from.
View by first name first, last name last would be nice. Sorry I know this is a lot but I am adding as I encounter issues.

Again I believe you are trying to do more than the software offers, more than any property management software solution I know offers. This isn't a limitation of the software so much as a limitation of all property management software. You've got a particular scenario that really requires the tenant's to be both individual tenants and fall under a kind of "group tenant". Just to push the point further if a tenant stops paying and you need to go to court and evict them, is it just that one tenant or the whole group? If it's just that one tenant then they really are a tenant more than an occupant. If in court say the rent is paid, the $4000, but one tenant is not paying their share, then are you evicting them? In court that would be very hard to do since they don't have a set rent. Your scenario leads to some possible complicated cases if it were to ever go to court as I understand the setup...

All that to say I think you're trying to do more than the software can offer. If you truly need these capabilities I would then recommend looking at alternative solutions as we may just not be a good fit for you. That being said you'd most likely be looking at solutions starting around the $200-$250/mth, and even then I don't know that they'd be able to do what you're looking for as I don't know of a solution that offers support for your particular scenario.

Gregory Hummel | email Nov 16 2020, 01:34 PM
First let me say I understand this software is very inexpensive and will have limitations. Any questions/requests were not a comment on the software's lack of functionality. But rather "is this something you can modify?" and if a cost is involved. If I think it's worth it I will pay. As far as monthly subscription I'd pay $200.-$250. in as second for something that was perfect. I have tried many and unfortunately you must put some time into setting up your particular scenario before you find the caveats.

I appreciate your lengthy explanations. First let me say for what you have developed the monthly price is a bargain. I can see the limitations I will have for my specific use. So let me explain as I find the limitations of the software for my use case. I am checking to see if any of my inquiries are solvable at a reasonable cost.
I realize this is cloud based so anybody may benefit. i just wanted to put that out there.

For 1) Lets forget about sub units all together for a minute. I move a group of 4 people into a unit. The rent is 4000. per month. Each tenant pays me $1000. separately. In order to use the software and make it simple I make one tenant the main tenant and bill them for the entire rent monthly. I label the 3 other tenants as occupants. So they are dead to accounting. I just want a single solution to store their info.

When the monthly rent gets paid by each of them I apply it to the main tenant in partial payments noting who it came from.
Problem solved.

My only request/inquiry was could the occupant field be added to the account entry screen. As I think about it this must be a relational database. Are occupants assigned to a tenant or unit? Or just a place holder? Just curious.
I am just trying to avoid having to type an entry for each separate payment (from Joe, from Steve etc.) in the notes section and wanted to select an occupant from a table for reference. If it cannot be done no problem.

As far a individuals go:
If I have a unit where I match roommates I set up sub unit rooms. Those tenants follow their individual lease terms. When I rent to a group. I do not let tenants move in and out at their whim. I used that example trying to explain why I assigned all rent due to a main tenant. In the instance if the main tenant moved or was evicted That would be a hassle for accounting etc. but that is rare.

Lastly in 2020 in multiple tenant/occupant set up there is no "main" tenant so to speak unless you are dealing with families. Just like you rarely have a "home phone" anymore. Every tenant wants a text or email when you are showing the unit. That's is why I wanted further occupant profile info.
Thanks for the time. If it is easier for a phone conversation let me know. Or private messages etc.
Stephane Grenier | email Nov 17 2020, 01:04 AM
Hi Greg,

I understand what you're saying, and yes it would be possible but it's not something we can add as a general feature because it's really a non-standard use of the software, that is it's customer specific, which would then have to be present for everyone else. To give you an analogy it's like say Honda added a bike hitch on the side door of all their cars when only a very small number of customers would need it. Or say a fridge for a customer that is always travelling. It is possible but it's really more of a customization for a specific customer then something that can be added for everyone. We always have to keep in mind what would work for the vast majority of our users and balance that.

That being said I'll contact you through a direct email and we can discuss alternative options.

Regards,
Stephan Grenier
Founder
LandlordMax Software Inc.
http://www.LandlordMax.com
http://www.FollowSteph.com


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